Punishment as a theme

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Punishment as a theme

Postby Lamebrain » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:11 pm

One thing I've noticed is fairly common. Like in 90% of TF stories I've read. Is that punishment is the central theme.

Like most protagonists in TF stories is either smug/popular and they are transformed as a punishment.

Why do you guys think that is? What stories have you seen that avoid this trope?
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Re: Punishment as a theme

Postby Islewing » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:01 pm

In the stories I've written, I don't think I've done any that included any harsh karma to the person in question.
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Re: Punishment as a theme

Postby Lamebrain » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:36 am

Islewing wrote:In the stories I've written, I don't think I've done any that included any harsh karma to the person in question.

Which is much appreciated. :D

However at the same time I feel like every other Transformation story is some variant on "smug condescending lady gets punished in some ironic way" or "overly masculine man gets embarrassed and emasculated".
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Re: Punishment as a theme

Postby riptoryx » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:45 am

One thing I've noticed is fairly common. Like in 90% of TF stories I've read. Is that punishment is the central theme.
Like most protagonists in TF stories is either smug/popular and they are transformed as a punishment.
Why do you guys think that is?


I suppose it's because many people find that sort of theme to be particularly arousing. I certainly do. My own interests in "transformation" revolve around female weight gain, but within that realm it's often the many little taboo and "negative" ancillary details associated with weight gain that really capture my attention. "Punishment" in the form of saddling a smug, popular, or somehow otherwise "powerful" character with a disempowering negative transformation seems like an obvious and natural delve into the same sort of power dynamics underlying dom/sub kinks. At least for myself, I think there's definitely some linkage.
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Re: Punishment as a theme

Postby ThePro » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:51 am

Personally I can only enjoy this kink if I sympathize with the victim, so I greatly prefer it if they don't even remotely deserve what's happening to them. To each their own, though.
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Re: Punishment as a theme

Postby riptoryx » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:35 am

Personally I can only enjoy this kink if I sympathize with the victim, so I greatly prefer it if they don't even remotely deserve what's happening to them.


Yeah! Who says the "punishment" has to be deserved? :twisted:
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Re: Punishment as a theme

Postby Lamebrain » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:34 am

riptoryx wrote:
One thing I've noticed is fairly common. Like in 90% of TF stories I've read. Is that punishment is the central theme.
Like most protagonists in TF stories is either smug/popular and they are transformed as a punishment.
Why do you guys think that is?


I suppose it's because many people find that sort of theme to be particularly arousing. I certainly do. My own interests in "transformation" revolve around female weight gain, but within that realm it's often the many little taboo and "negative" ancillary details associated with weight gain that really capture my attention. "Punishment" in the form of saddling a smug, popular, or somehow otherwise "powerful" character with a disempowering negative transformation seems like an obvious and natural delve into the same sort of power dynamics underlying dom/sub kinks. At least for myself, I think there's definitely some linkage.

Generally I've found it causes most TF stories to be derivative. Like it's rare I'm surprised by a TF premise.

Most of the time TF stories have a main character that's a cheer leader or some bratty person in a position of privilege who has to eat a slice of humble pie by someone she's scorned. It feels like 50 or 60% of TF stories are like this.
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Re: Punishment as a theme

Postby riptoryx » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:40 am

riptoryx wrote:Generally I've found it causes most TF stories to be derivative. Like it's rare I'm surprised by a TF premise.

Most of the time TF stories have a main character that's a cheer leader or some bratty person in a position of privilege who has to eat a slice of humble pie by someone she's scorned. It feels like 50 or 60% of TF stories are like this.


I agree that weight gain or other transformation-themed stories are, generally speaking, not very fertile ground if you're hoping to come across a groundbreaking new premise. By and large, such stories tend to gravitate towards patterns that are somewhat predictable in their broad strokes. But, I think this is at least in part a byproduct of the reality that weight gain tends to manifest from a relatively limited universe of scenarios, and that folks who are turned on by this kinda stuff often have a particular fondness for one or several of those specific scenarios.

Where I think I may disagree with you is that I don't think a surprising premise is necessary for a story to be enjoyable, or even objectively "good," whatever that might mean. While an intriguing premise can certainly pique curiosity, equally if not more important for reading enjoyment is the quality of good storytelling--i.e., the distinction between having an unusual idea, and telling a captivating story about that idea. Consider, for example, writers like Michael Crichton and George R.R. Martin. Crichton's novels stood out in that they often revolved around some fresh, intriguing premise--"The Andromeda Strain," "Jurassic Park," "Sphere." But in terms of storytelling, Crichton's novels usually weren't all that great. Dialogue, character development, descriptive world-building--these were not Crichton's strengths. Martin, on the other hand, has recently gained a great deal of fame and success for spilling a lot of ink about a medieval sword-and-sorcery fantasy prominently featuring dragons. There is nothing much groundbreaking about that premise in this day and age. But people like his writing anyway. Why? Because he writes in a way that leads readers to become personally invested in the characters and setting. Character relationships and richly immersive world-building description are Martin's strengths, much moreso than the sheer novelty of his ideas.

Certainly, it is possible both to have a new idea and to tell a good story about that idea. That can be a great combination. But, in the realm of weight gain (or other transformation) erotica, it's probably pretty difficult to come up with unexplored premises that still hit all the necessary and very particular buttons to accomplish the primary erotica objective. Indeed, far from looking for a surprise, I think people often read these stories looking for a specific, predetermined outcome based on what turns them on. To both predictably satisfy such exacting demands and yet also somehow be "surprising" in core concept? That's asking a lot. Perhaps especially so regarding stuff that I'm guessing you're getting for free. For that reason, when looking for "good" fetish fiction of this sort, I think the more fruitful approach lies in trying to create (or find) stories that, while perhaps not "surprising" in premise, are surprisingly well-told. Weave an engaging yarn, with vivid descriptions, compelling characters, dynamic relationships, believably meaningful consequences, and overall rigorous attention to detail, all within the well-worn plot tropes of what I know turns me on--do that, and I'll probably think the story is amazing...even if it's about a bratty cheerleader getting comeuppance.
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Re: Punishment as a theme

Postby Tom_Q » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:05 pm

Honestly, I really, REALLY dislike this as a premise or general idea. It's so over-used and cliche it just kills the whole story for me, regardless of execution. Not counting few exceptions, I can't think about any good stories that circle around punishment, especially since the punishment is almost always tied with humiliation.
Neither of those are "my" thing and I'm around for the transformation and/or dealing with the aftermath of it. Just making the target miserable and wallow in sufferig is nothing but "misery porn" for me.
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Re: Punishment as a theme

Postby GoodGuy » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:16 am

There's a ton of psychology and writing theory that surrounds this, but I'll boil it down to a couple of points:

One, human beings like to think the world is 'fair'. Good is rewarded. Evil is punished. You may say that you don't think that, that the world isn't fair, but this isn't some high order logical reaction. You may say that, but when some jackass t-bones your car while you're following every traffic law you'll complain about how unfair it is that it happened to you. It's just an instinctual hatred for things that don't feel deserved.

Two, stories demand structure. They are built heavily around the idea of some cause serving as impetus for an effect. The meat of your story is about describing the effect, or to use a more literary term, the aftermath of what effect was inflicted upon your main character or characters by whatever antagonist(from aging to a vengeful roommate) the story has.

Alright so taking these two principles into account, we know that stories need a cause and an effect structurally. We also know that people like things to be fair. From that, it's easy to see why something generally seen as bad(this kind of fiction is often even directly refereed to as downgrade) is balanced by someone who 'deserves' to be 'punished' in such a manner. Otherwise, the story would likely feel like it either lacked proper flow or lacked any sort of depth.

Of course, this needn't always be true. You can have someone WANT the bad reward(which actually makes it a good reward for them). You can even tell stories where the whole point is that it's unfair. Such things are not the natural course these ideas take, however, and perhaps more importantly, they are often not the kind of things that people that read this genre want to see either.
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